Secretary of State Marco Rubio with Raymond Arroyo of EWTN’s The World Over

QUESTION:  This is your 200th day, by the way, of the administration.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah.

QUESTION:  Which we’ll talk about more.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  But my first interview on this mezzanine; I’ve never done it before.  I’ve —

QUESTION:  You’ve never done it —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  No.  I’ve seen people do media reports for years from here, with the background.

QUESTION:  Yes.  But you –

SECRETARY RUBIO:  And now I get to do one myself.

QUESTION:  You’ve never done an interview here?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  No.  Not in this place.

QUESTION:  Wow.  I love that – well, it’s the perfect backdrop, and fitting for a day of celebration.

Mr. Secretary, you are the Secretary of State, the acting secretary of USAID, the acting secretary of the Archives, and you’re the National Security Advisor.  My first question is: (a) How do you balance all that?  And secondly, have you seen your wife in person in six months?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  I have.  I saw her in person today, actually.

QUESTION:  Oh, you see that?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  So not bad at all, yeah.  Well, USAID is largely folded now – the foreign aid part of it is under the State Department now.  So, it assumes that responsibility.  That really is where it always should have been.  The National Security Advisor and the Secretary of State roles are very intertwined.  In many cases, it’s the same issue.  Of course, it’s always funny to read a memo from the Secretary of State to the National Security Advisor – and so consider him informed.

QUESTION:  (Laughter.)  That’s right.  You have an insight into —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah, exactly.

QUESTION:  In a deep, personal way.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  And then on the Archives, of the ones, it probably takes the least amount of time.  But the good news is we haven’t lost any historic documents, so – they’re all in place.  They’re all there.  (Laughter.)

QUESTION:  This is always a good thing.  Well, the other piece of this is – describe to people very briefly – the national security advisor, in times past, that individual and the secretary of state often were at loggerheads.  And it become a drag at times on the policy being advanced.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah, sure.

QUESTION:  Was that part of the thinking here, let’s consolidate this to —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, I’m not sure that was the thinking per se.  The President had made a decision about making a change, and he wanted the National Security Council restructured and tasked me to do it, and then that’s what we’ve done.  And so, what – look, the way to think about it is our agencies, our cabinet – Senate-confirmed cabinet members in Treasury, at the Department of Defense, at State, et cetera – that’s our orchestra.  And the job of the National Security Advisor is to be the conductor of the orchestra, to make sure that everyone – the President picks the music, the instruments play off the same sheet, and it’s the job of the conductor to make sure everyone’s playing – that every instrument’s playing correctly and playing together.  So, it’s sort of a coordinating role.

QUESTION:  Big news this week:  Steve Witkoff, your ambassador, goes – special envoy – met with Vladimir Putin.  There’s now going to be a meeting between the President and Vladimir Putin.  What do you expect from that meeting?  What are you hearing, and what’s been your contact with Zelenskyy?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, yeah.  So hopefully there’s a meeting.  And I think the President’s willing to have one; I think Putin indicated a willingness to have one.  Obviously, the meeting has to be about something.  We’re going to have to make some progress here before a meeting like that would be fruitful and worth doing.  And so, for the first —

QUESTION:  Did Putin offer anything to Witkoff?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, let me just say that, obviously, I’m not going to get into the details of everything that was discussed there.  But for the first time in this process there’s at least some understanding of what the Russians would need in order to settle, to stop this war, from a diplomatic standpoint.  Now, I’m not claiming that what the Russians would need and what Ukraine would need are the same.

QUESTION:  Right.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  There’s a difference, and there’s a gap there.  And the question for us now is can – and we’ll be working on that even today, like, as soon as I leave here – can we bridge the gap between the Ukrainian side and the Russian side on this close enough so the President can come in as part of any sort of meeting and maybe be the closer on this deal.

QUESTION:  Has any – I mean, did they talk about a ceasefire?  Is that in the —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, I don’t think they’re specific about – obviously, the goal here is to end the war completely.  Now, you could talk about the notion that it’s very difficult to negotiate details of a peace if you’re still shooting at each other.  You – we’ve always found, like, for example, very recently now with Thailand and Cambodia, the talks in Malaysia were about a ceasefire so they could then negotiate sort of a more permanent deal.  But as long as you’re shooting at each other, it’s hard to negotiate peace permanently.

QUESTION:  So that’s going to have to be a precursor to any —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  We’ve always felt it is. 

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Like, look, if we can arrive at a final deal and it’s over completely, that would be great.  We’d prefer that – a permanent ceasefire.

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  But sometimes you need an interim ceasefire simply to get everybody to the table and to talk.  Because I’ve seen in the past you have talks going on, something blows up somewhere, and people just walk away from the table.

QUESTION:  Yeah, yeah.  Let’s hope that doesn’t happen this time.

The president of Switzerland was here yesterday.  She flies in, emergency meeting, to meet with you, trying to head off these 39 percent tariffs that are coming her way.  It looks like she didn’t get a reprieve from those.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, I certainly don’t do the trade negotiations, although I’ve been in many of them, but I’m not the person in charge of that.  That’s our team of Howard Lutnick and Jamieson Greer and Scott Bessent that have been doing that, and ultimately the President.

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  So, they came in to make a counteroffer, or a new offer, to our trade negotiators.  And as part of that, they’re in town, we definitely want to talk about – they’re a very – they’re a good ally.  They’re a good partner to the United States.

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  From a bilateral, diplomatic, geopolitical standpoint.  But obviously, the issue of trade came up, and I encouraged them to make the best offer possible.  In the end, every successful trade deal so far has been the President coming in to close it.  So, you can get a deal close enough, but then you’ve got to sit in front of him – whether it’s their president, their prime minister, or their chief trade negotiator – and close it out with the President.

QUESTION:  There was something you did early on, in February, I think.  Your State Department designated six cartels —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah.

QUESTION:  — in Latin America as terrorist organizations.  How did that change the way, the interaction between these cartels and the United States, and who made that decision?  How did the President come to that?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, the President makes the decision – yeah – on our recommendation.  Here’s the thing:  We cannot continue to just treat these guys as local street gangs.  They have weaponry that looks like what terrorists, in some cases armies, have.  They control territory in many cases.  Those cartels extend from the Maduro regime in Venezuela – which is not a legitimate government; we don’t recognize the Maduro regime as legitimate.

QUESTION:  Right.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  It is a criminal enterprise – all the way to the various different cartels that operate in Mexico, and in between.  You find them in Ecuador.  You find them in Guatemala.  You find TDA – what people would call street gangs, but actually are operating as criminal enterprises, but very well-organized ones.  So what it changes is it gives us legal authorities to target them in ways you can’t do if they’re just a bunch of criminals.  It’s no longer a law enforcement issue.  It becomes a national security issue.

QUESTION:  Has it changed their behavior at all?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, I don’t know if it’s changed their behavior yet, but their behavior is going to have to change one way or another.  But it allows us to now target what they’re operating and to use other elements of American power, intelligence agencies, the Department of Defense, whatever —

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  — to target these groups if we have an opportunity to do it.  We have to start treating them as armed terrorist organizations, not simply drug dealing organizations.  Drug dealing is the kind of terrorism they’re doing, and it’s not the only.

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  They’re also into human trafficking.  They smuggle anything.  And there’s been nascent cooperation between them and some international terrorist organizations in the past which pose an ongoing danger to the United States.

QUESTION:  Let’s talk for a moment about the Israeli-Gaza-Hamas conflict. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah.

QUESTION:  It looks like Benjamin Netanyahu is – wants to occupy Gaza, and Hamas is saying there’ll be no ceasefire – we need a ceasefire, and we’re not giving you these hostages until our terms are met.  Where is the United States on this?  Is occupation of Gaza the right way to go right now?  And what about the humanitarian crisis?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, let me say ultimately what Israel needs to do for Israel’s security will be determined by Israel. 

I can tell you the way to break this out is there are three problems there at the same time.  Number one is the one that’s getting almost all the media coverage, and this is the humanitarian problems that we’re seeing there.  And there – no one wants to see that, and the United States stands prepared to contribute toward any real effort that will actually get food and medicine and life-sustaining aid to people on the ground in Gaza.  That’s number one. 

The second is that there are 20 innocent people being held hostage and starved inside of tunnels.  Unfortunately, there aren’t daily cameras down there covering that, and so you don’t see the mainstream media covering it – but there are 20 people that have nothing wrong that are being held as hostage, and we saw the conditions that they’re living in the other day.

And the third is that as long as Hamas exists – as long as Hamas exists, particularly exists as an armed organization – there will never be peace in Gaza.  Because that – Hamas is not going to suddenly change and go into another line of work.  Their line of work, their reason for existing, is they want to destroy Israel.  They want to drive every Jew out of the Middle East.  That’s their goal.  And as long as a group like that has weapons and the ability to fight, they’re a threat to peace.

So, we have to deal with all three of those elements, not just the humanitarian.  That’s important, but the other two have to be dealt with as well.  Not enough time is being – not enough attention is being paid to those two.  And it’s not easy, because Hamas thinks they’re winning the global PR war.  They’re not willing to make any concessions. 

QUESTION:  Well, clearly they’re winning something.  Your allies – Canada, France, the UK —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Right.

QUESTION:  — are prepared to recognize the Palestinian state there.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, if you noticed, the talks with Hamas fell apart on the day Macron made the unilateral decision that he’s going to recognize the Palestinian state.  And then you have other people come forward, other countries say, well, if there’s not a ceasefire by September, we’re going to recognize a Palestinian state.  Well, if I’m Hamas, I’ve basically concluded let’s not do a ceasefire. 

QUESTION:  Right.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Because we can be rewarded and we can claim it as a victory.  So those messages, while largely symbolic in their minds, actually have made it harder to get peace and harder to achieve a deal with Hamas.  They feel emboldened. 

QUESTION:  Well, the Arab League isn’t in favor of this.  I mean, clearly the Arab League says you’ve got to get Hamas out of there.  They need to drop arms and move on. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Correct. 

QUESTION:  But do you agree with Netanyahu that this would be a reward for Hamas?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Statehood?

QUESTION:  By giving them statehood?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Recognition – absolutely.  Look, statehood is a – it’s not a real – what these people talk about isn’t real.  They can’t define the borders or who’s going to run it.  I mean, you can’t have a state or even an autonomous region unless you can identify who’s going to run it.  And if it’s going to be run by Hamas, you’re going to be right back into war.

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  So, I think what’s important to remember here is that – by the way, they had opportunities to do this.  Israel turned over Gaza, turned it over completely with greenhouses and all kinds of things.  And they elected Hamas.  Hamas destroyed it, destroyed it all, took it, built tunnels instead of hospitals.  That’s what they do.  So, at the end of the day my problem with it is that I believe that these unilateral steps that have been taken by these governments, I believe – I know – has emboldened Hamas and made it harder to achieve peace.

QUESTION:  Your department recently made headlines.  You are instituting a pilot plan where people who are coming to the country to visit – when they file for their visa, they have to leave a bond of $10,000, $5,000 for children.  Why are you instituting this?  And is this going to help people actually go back to their country?  I know that’s —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah, a couple – it’s not for every country.  It’s for countries that have high rates of visa overstays.  What generally happens is people will get a visa, they come to the U.S., it expires in six months, and they don’t leave.  Now they’re here illegally.  Very common; it happened a lot.  In fact, I would say at one point – I don’t know what the latest numbers are – but more than half the people in this country illegally were visa overstays.  So, for countries that have high rates of visa overstay, you post a bond, and the bond gets collected against.  And obviously the – and so obviously now some third party is going to try to verify whether this person is truly going to come back or not.  But it – I’m not saying it solves all the problem, but it’s an innovative way to sort of cut down on visa overstays.

QUESTION:  There’s been a huge challenge in the issuance of visas to foreign-born Catholic priests and religious. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Correct, yeah.

QUESTION:  I know it’s bollocksed up in fraud in unaccompanied minor visas.  Now, I don’t know how those two became conflated.  I think the Biden administration attached them or threw them into the same category.  What can be done?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, first is to separate the one from the other.  And in many cases, what you were finding is you had X number of people you were going to allow a year.  You prioritized people that were coming here from a different migration and it came at the price of some of these others. 

QUESTION:  I see.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  So, we’re trying to separate the two from it and create its own standalone process.  And I’ve been in touch, for example, with a number of our cardinals here in the United States and bishops about that as well. 

QUESTION:  I’ll bet.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  And it’s not only the Catholic Church.  I mean, there are other places that are being impacted by – but we’re trying to streamline that process.  We clearly view that entry point as very different than some of these others.  And – but when you basically say there’s a hundred available – I’m just using that number.

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:   And you’re – the pot is that big, someone’s going to lose out.  I mean, you start losing slots, and that includes religious.

QUESTION:  Would you be in favor of extending those special visas that some of the religious and priests have now?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Potentially.  I mean, we’re going to look at it.  We’re looking at every option.  Look, we don’t want to read headlines that some Catholic church had to close because —   

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  — it couldn’t get their priests here or they couldn’t get – some order closed because some nun couldn’t get here.  So we’re not interested in that. 

QUESTION:  Yeah. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  And that’s really not the aim here.  It’s more caught up in the structure of it.  We’ll have a plan to fix it.  We’re working on it.  We know it’s an issue, and we’re committed to fixing it. 

QUESTION:  The Immigration and Nationality Act allows you as Secretary of State to revoke student visas if they’re engaged in – I’m going to quote – speech that “compromises a compelling foreign policy interest,” and you can revoke a visa from a student for any reason. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Correct.  And we have. 

QUESTION:  And you can because of the antisemitism being expressed and other toxic speech that undermines foreign policy objectives of the United States.  Now you’re being sued by Stanford newspaper and a free speech activist group.  Where do you stand on this now?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  They’re wrong.  I mean, anybody can sue. 

QUESTION:  They say it’s a First Amendment violation. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, it has nothing to do with what their opinion is.  It has to do what the impact of it has on the United States.  Let’s remember again – student visas, okay, are not a right.  There is no constitutional right to a student visa.  A student visa is something we decide to give you.  And by the way, visas of every kind are denied every day all over the world.  As I speak to you now, someone’s visa application to the U.S. is being denied.  So, if I would have denied you a visa had I known something about you, and I find out afterwards that I gave you a visa and I found this out about you, why wouldn’t I be able to revoke your visa?  If I wouldn’t have let you in had I known this – like if this guy, Khalil – whatever his last name is.

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  If that guy had been saying and doing abroad what he’s now doing in the United States, we never would have given him a visa.  He was on TV, I think it was yesterday or the day before —   

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  — arguing that October 7th had to happen – that it had happen – that it was a necessary evil that – he didn’t call it an evil. 

QUESTION:  Yeah. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  He said it’s a necessary thing; it had to happen.  Why is a guy like that allowed into the United States on a visa?  He’s not entitled to a visa.  So, it has nothing to do with what they’re saying.  It has to do with what they’re doing and its implications on the U.S.  Student visas are a privilege.  They are not a right. 

QUESTION:  I want to talk about this day.  We – as we sit here, it’s the 200th day of the administration.  Major and, for the most part, unrecognized peace deals that you all have worked out in the —  

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah.

QUESTION:  I mean, the Cambodia deal, the Congo deal.  I want you to talk briefly about those.  Forty-nine Christians were killed by Islamic extremists.  More Christians are killed in Nigeria than anyplace on Earth.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Correct.

QUESTION:  What else can we and should we be doing to stop that?  

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, unfortunately in those places, you have these Islamist jihadist elements operating inside the country that deliberately target Christian communities and others, but they target Christians, especially in Nigeria, as you pointed out.  And so, I think what we want to do is work closely with Nigerian authorities to prevent that.  They have to make it a priority to prevent it. 

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  On the broader issue of peace, the President is committed to peace and committed to being the President of peace.  And so, we saw when India and Pakistan went to war, we got involved directly, and the President was able to deliver on that peace.  Cambodia and Thailand more recently; Azerbaijan and Armenia, hopefully – we’re taping this here today, but on Friday of this week, we’ll be here to sign an agreement and the beginning of a peace deal there.  DRC-Rwanda – a 30-year war, 7 million people killed – we were able to bring them here to sign it.  Obviously, work needs to – peace is not permanent.  It always has to be worked and maintained. 

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  But we’re very proud of those initiatives, and we’re looking for more – obviously, the big one being in Ukraine and Russia. 

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  We want to see that as well.  But we dedicate a significant amount of time to stopping and ending wars. 

QUESTION:  And what’s the difference between what you all are doing – what you’re doing at this State Department and the President’s leadership – as opposed to these conflicts that dragged on during the last administration (inaudible)? 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, I think the biggest is the President’s direct involvement.  One thing is – we get involved.  We help with the technical aspects of it, the mechanics, and we do a lot.  I mean, it’s a team effort.  The Vice President has been involved in some – Steve Witkoff, obviously.  It’s another when the President is calling directly and saying in some cases to countries: we have this trade thing we’re working on with you, but we can’t do it if you guys are going to be fighting a war with each other.  So that personal engagement by the President that I’ve witnessed, particularly just very recently with Cambodia and Thailand —  

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  — that, I think, made all the difference in the world – certainly expedited.  Understand that – from the time he made the first call to the time they stopped firing at each other was about 36 hours.  Usually, these things take six weeks – not with President Trump. 

QUESTION:  Give me a sense.  You were there in the room when he was launching those attacks on Iran.  You were there, I imagine.  Describe to me how the President walks through these moment-by-moment decisions when the national security and the national prestige is on the line.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, I think you make a determination that we have a target identified.  The first thing to understand about that operation it was very – it was very defined.  In essence — 

QUESTION:  Targeted.  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  It was targeted.  It wasn’t about starting a broader war.  It was actually an effort to escalate in order to de-escalate.  It had a very clear objective.  He established the objective.  His military planners offered him a timeline, and then there were checkpoints along that timeline where we had to go back and check with the President:  Are you okay?  Are you okay? 

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  All of those thresholds were crossed.  It happened very calmly.  Now, he was President before, so he’s been through this in the past. 

QUESTION:  Yeah. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  But it was executed on, and then we were done.  He wasn’t tempted to say let’s go back and do it again or let’s do more or let’s find some other place. 

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  He had a very clear objective in mind, and he achieved it.  And we immediately pivoted now to our goal was: okay, we achieved this objective, now how do we end this war —  

QUESTION:  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  — on the 12th day and not let it become a regional war after 21?

QUESTION:  Yeah. 

You were in Rome during the Pope’s installation – the new Pope – Pope Leo’s installation.  Give me a sense of how now, as Secretary of State, what’s – has the relationship at all changed or shifted from Pope Francis’s reign to that of Pope Leo?  What did you see in person from the man himself?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well – well, it was – when I interact with leaders in the Catholic Church, they’re almost invariably from some other country, especially at that level.  So, it was almost surreal to sort of interact with an American that’s sitting across the table, because you’re not used to that when it comes to – at that level, obviously. 

QUESTION:  Right.  And they get the nuance and the speech and the things —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah, and they understand our history, our politics, our culture, what’s going on here, things of this nature.  They know – in many cases maybe they don’t know too much about you.  When it’s an American, I think they know a lot more about you because they follow it (inaudible).

QUESTION:  Right. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  So, all that was unique, obviously.  But I would say that right now, the – it’s been new, and the papacy has only been there for less than a hundred days.

QUESTION:  Yeah.  Yeah.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  So, I think that’s still establishing itself, and he’ll have to make decisions about – so right now I don’t – I think it’s good and we have good communication.  We’ve talked to the church, for example, extensively about Gaza.  When a church was attacked there, we were able to facilitate visits there.  There’s a cardinal now that’s in Gaza at that church permanently, I think – and kind of – I wouldn’t say trapped, but he’s certainly there.

QUESTION:  Yeah. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  We’ve been in communication with them on that.  So, it’s a good relationship, but it’s new.  It’s a new papacy.  It’s a new direction.  And I think – again, I’m speculating, because I’m not in the conclave, but I think one of the things that the cardinals probably chose is someone that sort of could provide a period of stability and consistency as the church faces a myriad of challenges around the world and – can both reach out to areas where the church is growing, but also sort of reinvigorate the church in some places where perhaps it’s struggling. 

QUESTION:  I remember in 2019 you gave a speech at CUA, just up the street here, Catholic University of America.  And it was on the first – the last Pope Leo and —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Leo – yeah.  Common-good capitalism. 

QUESTION:  Common-good capitalism.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah.

QUESTION:  This seems to really resonate with this new Pope. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  I think so.  We didn’t get into depth on it, obviously, but —

QUESTION:  Did you talk about it all?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, I mentioned it and I made sure they had a copy of it, because the speech was back in 2019.  But I do think that Catholic social doctrine, which is highly intellectual, has a lot to offer even non-Catholics in terms of forming – at the core of it, right, is the belief that – is the market the tool or the purpose?  I don’t think the market is the purpose.  I think the market is a tool.  The purpose is providing people meaningful work, an economy that grows but grows by creating jobs.  We have an expectation that people work, but we also should have an expectation that the economy is creating good work.  And from work, flows everything.  We are made to work, and from work flows everything – stability in families, stability in communities. 

So, I think the simplest way to describe it is we are – we believe in capitalism, a capitalism that generates economic growth, an economic growth that creates wealth but doesn’t only create wealth.  It also creates opportunity.  It also creates jobs, it also benefits the common good. 

QUESTION:  Now – well, you have a unique – there are articles; I’m not the first to say this.  But I thought when you became Secretary of State, you have a unique opportunity to interface with the Vatican on a level that, frankly, other secretaries have not had in the past because of that experience. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah, look, I think the Vatican could play a very key role in many parts of the world.  They’re actually very skilled diplomatic – diplomatically.  In the end, their number one goal has to be that – I wouldn’t want to call it the national interest of the Vatican, but the church and its presence in different places.  I know they’re deeply concerned, for example, that the church is being heavily persecuted in Nicaragua, as an example.  So, they’re always concerned about the church in China, which has been a point of friction with the U.S. Government in the past.  But I mean, they’re important, and they’ve offered to get involved in any way they can on bringing about peace as a forum or as a facilitator.  So, these are things maybe we’ll be able to work on. 

QUESTION:  Yeah.  Very quickly, a couple of cultural things.  Howard Stern looks like he’s losing his show.  Stephen Colbert has lost his show.  What’s happening culturally, and how is this President a part of it?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  I don’t know if it’s just culturally.  I think ultimately these are businesses, and the landscape, the media landscape, the way people are getting news, information, and entertainment is rapidly changing across the board.  It’s rapidly changing.  And so, I think we are living in an era in which sort of what we describe or consider traditional media is going to erode in favor of some – I think everyone’s trying to reinvent themselves.  We saw newspapers go through this, we saw other media formats go through this; and I think it’s now finally reaching broadcasters.  And I think that both on radio and television, it’s just a rapidly changing landscape.  The overwhelming – increasingly – majority of people are not getting their news sitting live in front of a program.  They’re getting a clip on social media or they’re getting it from an alternative site that’s providing news and information. 

The good news is we have more providers than ever of news and information and entertainment.  The bad news is we have more sources and they’re all over the place.  (Laughter.)  So, I think as much as anything else, the bottom line is that Colbert and Stern – I don’t know the details of it – are being fired because they don’t – their audiences don’t like what they’re offering, and they don’t have a long-term future. 

QUESTION:  Final question.  You saw Cynthia Erivo, the Wicked actress, played Jesus in Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood Bowl just this past weekend.  You are an ex officio member of the Kennedy Center.  My question is:  Would you ever put that show with Cynthia Erivo at the Kennedy Center?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Yeah, I didn’t know it – I’m so busy I don’t follow any of this stuff.  (Laughter.)  But just how you’ve described it to me, no.  I mean, obviously, look, that stuff’s done to be provocative and to – but I think for people of faith, none of this should be new. 

QUESTION:  Yeah. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  It’s been true from the beginning of Christianity.  It’s been – Christianity has been mocked.  Christianity has been attacked from its very inception.  In fact, the church has traditionally been at its strongest when it’s the persecuted church.

QUESTION:  Yes, it is.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  It’s been at its weakest when it sort of gets consumed by the culture and – so by definition, Christianity has always been countercultural.  It was from its earliest days, and it’s been at its strongest and most vibrant.  Now, that doesn’t mean we seek persecution or that we don’t take it on, it – but I think we should understand that in Christ’s own command he – in Christ’s own words he tells us:  They’re going to hate you because of me.  They hated me before they hate you.  And —

QUESTION:  What will you do when you leave this interview?  What does the rest of your day look like? 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  I’m going over to the White House.  We have meetings with the President this morning.  We have a visitor from overseas coming into the White House as well to meet with me, not with the President.  We have to get ready for the peace signing tomorrow, and I’m sure they have other surprises awaiting. 

QUESTION:  Oh, I’ll bet. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  And I’m – I actually have to finish here first.  I’ve got to go through some documents here, then run over there, and then I think may have to come back this afternoon again.  So —

QUESTION:  Wow.  Well, I hope you see your family very soon. 

SECRETARY RUBIO:  (Laughter.)  I’ll see them, yeah. 

QUESTION:  Thank you so much.